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Post by Badwater on Jun 5, 2009 9:57:56 GMT -5
Im game for a revamp... Lets go LOW magic items !! The mines can go like rfree said, I never got here and if you make a new area that can accomplish what it serves then its just something else to explore. If we can reduce the amount of higher lvl magic items (weapons, armor etc) then maybe crafting a +3 might be a worthy operation. Of course we might have to tone down the monsters who were all over rated to deal with uber chars. Well, the way I understood it from previous responses was that there were a fair number of players that were used to present Talus and liked it the way it is, more or less. I still have all my Talus 2 areas and the server can handle 2 World of Talus. I'm all for expanding on what I started and making a separate World of Talus with low magic items. I think that logistically it is easiest to start fresh in order to go that route.
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Post by slidermike on Jun 5, 2009 10:57:30 GMT -5
Well at this point were back in a lul spot. not many players coming day to day. We can always allow the current players char's to keep what they have.. Then all new chars will go into low magic item world. Ive been piqued by the notion ever since rfree explained ravenloft to me. Mostly normal or silver weapons, where a +1 is a real reward and not at all common. In that type of environment our existing crafting system would rock with stuff +3 i think. Dunno, your always going to have those who dont like what is or what you prepose. Ive already heard 1 person whine about why the challenges were changed (that player hadnt even tried the new version yet). I mean can you really as an old timer expect to come back after 2 yrs away and complain that the server has changed?! You still have your old chars.. Just if you make any new chars they will have to adapt to a less magic filled world. Again the monsters will have to changed as well. Seems like there are for the most part only 3 or so people actively speaking here though I see many passerbyes. My theory is you cant complain if you dont give a voice and a reason. "dont change it" isnt a reason either. lol
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Post by Badwater on Jun 5, 2009 11:24:00 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with you at all; however, there are a lot of existing items that are bound to find their way into new characters' hands. After all, If there's nothing for the old epic to be doing then it may as well go to someone else, hmm?
But you're right, with a different server setup some of those mundane items become a whole lot less mundane. On my old server I had a White Robe of the Archmagi and that was a big deal. I treasured that thing. Fighters could get +3 armors and that was about it.
I also wouldn't mind using that Mountain tileset. Those of us who are active will load the hak and it won't interfere with play on Talus 1, where it would not exist.
I think I'll talk to Lan about setting up another server for what everyone had in mind for Talus 2. That way everyone can have the best of either world.
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Post by slidermike on Jun 5, 2009 13:18:57 GMT -5
I agree with you that some older char will filter items down to newer character they make but lets be realistic.. How many times are they going to "enjoy" a totally unbalanced char; Facing and defeating a boss monster only to get a +3 this or that? It will be fun once or twice just to explore an area in safety but after that the challenge will be to survive with a barely equiped char in the new world. At least thats what I am hoping for.
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masterstrife
Acolyte
Losing sanity one braincell at a time...
Posts: 80
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Post by masterstrife on Jun 6, 2009 15:16:19 GMT -5
I have always been one to run low level magic item campaigns in both nwn and with PnP. Tho through my experiences the classes most impacted by these changes are the melee characters. Casters really dont have this impediment once they get to their higher level career spells. If you plan on actually having a low magic item setting campaign then you are going to have to limit how spell casters leveling and spells work. Considering evasion is always going to be viable to limit spell casters ability to do big damage, there's the little problem with SR items in a low magic item campaign that evens out the playing field in a standard game world.
Ive always found casters to be the classes that set the bar for where all classes need to be strength wise but in this case its not even possible with the restriction of low magic items. If your seriously considering keeping the playing field fair and challenging for both melee and casters you need to set balance from the melee classes and then "nerf" caster abilities to reflect similar strengths and weaknesses. Thats a LOT of work tho.
Im assuming your also making a low magic campaign here not just a low magic item world. If thats the case then no one in the right mind would not supplement their melee build without caster abilities attached. It would make for an interesting world but for the sake of balance it would need consideration for those that prefer to get in the thick of battle instead of bombarding the battlefield with elemental death.
Just my two cents but I definitely think the idea to make a world like this can be awesome if its done right.
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Post by Badwater on Jun 7, 2009 13:19:32 GMT -5
I have always been one to run low level magic item campaigns in both nwn and with PnP. Tho through my experiences the classes most impacted by these changes are the melee characters. Casters really dont have this impediment once they get to their higher level career spells. If you plan on actually having a low magic item setting campaign then you are going to have to limit how spell casters leveling and spells work. Considering evasion is always going to be viable to limit spell casters ability to do big damage, there's the little problem with SR items in a low magic item campaign that evens out the playing field in a standard game world. Ive always found casters to be the classes that set the bar for where all classes need to be strength wise but in this case its not even possible with the restriction of low magic items. If your seriously considering keeping the playing field fair and challenging for both melee and casters you need to set balance from the melee classes and then "nerf" caster abilities to reflect similar strengths and weaknesses. Thats a LOT of work tho. Im assuming your also making a low magic campaign here not just a low magic item world. If thats the case then no one in the right mind would not supplement their melee build without caster abilities attached. It would make for an interesting world but for the sake of balance it would need consideration for those that prefer to get in the thick of battle instead of bombarding the battlefield with elemental death. Just my two cents but I definitely think the idea to make a world like this can be awesome if its done right. I'm not entirely sure I agree with this in that I don't see symptomatic indications of this on Talus. That is to say when characters build powerful characters you'll see cleric, fighters, subraces, COT, DD, WM, etc but I very seldom see mages. It's hard to be a mage on Talus; not impossible, but hard, and mages have trouble in no rest areas where fighters just need to heal. Also, there's no logoff bug any longer with casters of any description - you must rest to get spells. I think the vast majority of what you bring up can be addressed without nerfing the mages. And even if it's not perfect, no server or campaign is.
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Post by smkaiser on Jun 20, 2009 10:59:32 GMT -5
I know it's been a while since I logged in to Talus, but I do frequent the boards just to see how things are going. Major drawback to being in the Navy is the amount of time I spend away from home. Guess you have to take the good with the bad. In my opinion, this topic warrants a reply from anyone who has dedicated as much time as I have to this server, whether as a player or a DM.
I'll start by saying that having another server is not a bad idea. It might cause others who have left to come back, it might cause new people to log in just to check it out, or it might do both/neither. I think that anyone who has played Talus and enjoyed it will probably log in to Talus 2 just to see what the deal is. Whether they stay or not is an unknown.
I do think that a server wipe of Talus or not allowing character cross over is a bad idea. Speaking from personal feelings here, I detest the idea of losing a couple of the characters I have spent almost 7 years on. I am sure there are others who feel the same way (as some have posted already). When I build a character I put a decent amount of thought into his/her back story, goals, attitude, etc. This causes me to become attached to them...one of the major reasons I always come back to Talus. I miss my characters. I would agree that having all of your characters brought over to Talus 2 is not consistent with the proposed story line. However, allowing players to bring over a select few characters would make sense. Characters move around, travel and explore...it's not beyond reason for a couple of them to make it to Talus 2. This doesn't mean they can bring over their entire vault, but the admins could set a limit (2 or 3) that is allowed to cross over. This could be done by having the players post in the forums which characters to bring over or have them PM the lead builder/admin that is put in charge of that aspect. Just a thought.
As far as the type of server Talus 2 should be, I am torn. I like the abundance of magical items and the potential from maximizing your character, but I also like tougher servers that limit magic and focus more on RP and tactics. If you were to keep both servers online then I would say that Talus 2 should be a lower magic realm and keep Talus 1 as is. It is a really tough decision to make, there are a lot of players that won't play in high magic and just as many that hate low magic. Other than polling the current populace of Talus and finding out what they would prefer, I have no real advice for this tough topic.
I think the main idea here is storyline. As long as the new server has a good storyline that the players can enjoy and fall into themselves, I think the server will do well. Another important aspect of gaining new players is a hook. Back when Talus was still known as "The Cliffs of Challenge" there was a RP/player hook right off the bat (i.e. the Challenges). Yes, I realize that the challenges are still in place, but there is also a ridiculous amount of other places the characters can run off to and potentially get lost in. I love the fact that there are countless areas to travel to, but again I have been playing here for almost 7 years and am well acquainted with most of those areas. Get the players involved with the world right away and they will come back. Bottom line.
As always, I am willing to assist in anyway necessary...whether it be building, admin stuff, storyline development, or some other random act. Just send me a PM.
That's about all I have for this topic. I'll check back in to see how things are developing and I'll hopefully see you all in game.
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Post by slidermike on Jun 21, 2009 10:14:26 GMT -5
I like your thoughts and input Kaiser. My personal opinion is that you will never make everyone happy but keeping some of what made talus successful while introducing newer elements such as low magic item world and equally nerfed monsters makes a lot of sense to me.
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Post by Badwater on Jun 27, 2009 18:04:55 GMT -5
I've decided a on some things at the outset: - Talus 1 and Talus 2 will run concurrently. Talus 1 is not going away.
- Talus 2 will be and should be different from Talus 1. This means that Talus 2 will be a lower magic world - much lower. Things like the greater belts won't initially exist on Talus 2 and may never exist. There's no reason to make a copy of Talus 1; Talus 1 already exists, and it can and will be updated in its present form. Talus 2 will be different in other respects, also.
- There will be an additional tileset hak in Talus 2. There may be more than one, but we'll see. And we may have some additional haks on Talus 2. Talus 1 will always only have the CEP hak; that's always been Lanthar's vision for it and at the present I don't see a need to go about it differently.
- At the outset of Talus 2 there will not be player vault sharing. This is not to say there will never be player vault sharing, so please don't read something into this that isn't there. What I am saying is this: Initially Talus 2 won't be designed for epic characters. That is something that will have to be developed upon later. Talus 2 will initially be for characters 1-20 and it will be easier for me to tweak opponents, loot, crafting, and the economics of Talus 2 if there aren't epic chars or chars with items not intended for Talus 2. After Talus 2 has been played on and tweaked, and developed for epic characters, then we'll see.
- Talus 2 is probably two or three months away from being a reality. That's just my best guess. Lanthar will need to help set up Talus 2 to run concurrently and his time will be non-existent for awhile. In the meantime I have plenty to do in updating Talus 1 and I want to be well on the way with Talus 1 before starting on Talus 2. And it's just me, folks - I only have so much time.
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Post by slidermike on Jun 27, 2009 19:00:36 GMT -5
Thanks for all your continued efforts BW.. On both Talus 1 & 2. I am finding it harder to continually show up with little to no other users on when I log in.. I know I am not the only one looking at the status page and seeing no one on or logging in for 30-45min and no one ever showing up. Hope to see that change but hey it is what it is. SM
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Post by Longtide on Jun 28, 2009 11:49:45 GMT -5
Hi everyone. Finally have NWN 1 re-installed on my pc now after a bad crash. Anyhow, there are some really really good thoughts, opinions and ideas here. Love it all. And such comments coming from the long time players, admins, dm's, builders all of them with direct insight into what has made Talus what it is, are all seriously worth hearing. One thing for sure that has changed my mind on a previous stance I was pushing for (which was hacks for Talus 1), is to have NO haks! Just as BW mentioned, we need to stick to Lan's vision on this and keep them out of Talus 1. After re-installing this game on two systems and downloading and configuring and changing and moving files (my NWN folder is over 200 GB!) the very last thing I wanted to do to get this game working was to install a hak. And again, I agree with BW's stance on how Talus 2 can be and should be completely different from Talus 1. Your insight into solving this dilemma of worlds and what to do with them is very... , well very insightful I also agree with SMK on not loosing characters that you have spent loads of time on, cause I've since realized that after coming back time and again after absence "spells" that coming back to said characters is a relief that you have something to come back too. In regards to the backdrop for T2, are we still going for the Alerra story line? Well, whatever happens, it will be interesting to see the future of these discussions, but I still have my fingers crossed for the dreamy future of an succussful NWN 3!
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Post by Badwater on Jun 28, 2009 13:17:23 GMT -5
In regards to the backdrop for T2, are we still going for the Alerra story line? I think so. At whatever point we're ready, there can be a time portal to connect the worlds, being that they're about 400 years apart; thus, items that can be taken to Talus 2 will be limited because the time portal isn't stable with large numbers of items.
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Post by Badwater on Dec 18, 2010 22:44:05 GMT -5
I'm thinking about adding a feature in Talus2 that adds realistic gold weight. That means your character can only carry however many pounds of gold before becoming encumbered. That would give a great reason for having banks, which would of course charge a fee for holding onto your gold for you. (I'm not going to do this with T1, some additions on T1 aren't worth the time and gold weight can just be another one of those differences between T1 and T2).
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Post by reinitamv on Apr 16, 2011 15:10:43 GMT -5
Okay, I'm a new returning player myself, yet things are a LOT different from my aspect. For me, starting totally new is no big deal, since I had to deal with that anyhow. After some RL things I have had to replace computers, the game, and try to catch up, and with the changes, forgetting my old info to be able to log into my old account (because my memory is soooo wonderful) has inevitably happened. However, in the past (especially on different servers) I've experienced server wipes and what not, and know how extremely frusterating it can be. What I was thinking, in the spirits of accomodation, it would be neat to have a server wide event that opens this portal from T1 to T2, and perhaps some of the higher level characters, during the event and portal to the new world have a "problem" and loose a bit of thier experience and items in the transport, therefore, still leaving them a bit higher than normal, and still bringing them down a bit so that they can enjoy the new world instead of sitting idle. As well as perhaps transporting some of the others as is but - the items through server vault. To me, that creates a link of the old and the new through RP, and allows for some of us (like myself) to perhaps add a bit of flavor by not making it through or dieing in the event. For me, if there is going to be the PRC (which I believe I've read that as a possiblity) then I'd like to create new, as I'm already starting fresh. But maybe the older players can add flavor and become intrigued by the new world as well with old characters. I like the idea of combining the two, if possible, as it could be an interesting bridge that may bring new and old characters. Also, having worlds connected with drastic differences such as high and low magics, and different haks will create a fun change of environment and storyline as well, perhaps. I personally like the possibility of the low magic and new craft system because I think it could make RP with a mage have more purpose, and may open things up for new storylines between PC's alone. I could imagine creating new and possibly recreating old characters that would fit into this, and really open up my RP through these. Developing a need for the tank and caster duo, that would create an interesting bond. I know this comment is late, but I'm only just catching up, but I am so excited to see where this goes.
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Post by Edohvi on Apr 16, 2011 15:27:40 GMT -5
I really like your ideas! They give me inspiration to work on the rp of the Silverhair and Draekhul more... those are clans I created years ago on a MUDD I played and they have slowly made their way to Talus, hehe.
Keep up with the great ideas! I hadn't thought much about how a link/portal could be used between T1 and T2 until now, thanks!
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