place for mages

[mercurial]

I don't get to go to Akrona too much, so , and when I do I spend most of my timing running around and swearing like a trooper trying to keep away from those Abberations (thanks BW).

[slidermike]

BW, if you are correct on this, then i stand corrected. Maybe thats why i never see any clerics tearing it up in akrona.. thanks for the info as i didnt think of them as anything but dead and now not dead ie.. undead...

[dama]

I have been on a lot of servers too & have talked with a lot of the DM's & world builders (WB's) in those servers. I too have noticed almost all of the servers have favored classes & combinations of classes specific to that server. I think it must be really hard to make a server/module/game that does not favor certain builds. This is especially true for the epic level monsters or bosses.

All builds (i dislike using the term 'build' - it's hard to RP a build) have strengths & weaknesses. Most servers are slanted to provide a challenge towards the builds favored by the builder. I believe this is just the way people think - 'what would be tough but not impossible for the kinds of characters I, the builder, am familiar with?' What builds are said builders familiar with? The ones they get the most enjoyment out of!

Along those lines I notice most servers are slanted for fighter types (fighters are easiest to play IMHO), the rest of the classes either are a cake walk or impossible to play depending on things like unlimited resting or no, locks & traps that can't be bashed away, truesight on how many monsters, spell resistance or immunity.

A big advantage here in Talus is the range of input the builders receive & use. Also, one builder is not doing all the work, you get different slants & that leads each builder to think of new things. On other servers I rarely see monsters using spells that play on a fighters weaknesses. For that matter, I can't remember the time (outside of Talus) where I saw monsters that were made to be tough for any solo character, no matter what build, to fight.

I really like the way Moonstones criticism was given & replied to. This is what makes Talus great! Subraces, storage boxes, teleporting & all these quests don't hurt a bit either ;)

[Longtide]

Seems now is the ideal time to add in some of the new content for this new mage area. But does anyone know why and or how long till the new content is fully useable? Something about confilcts with the older patch?

[mercurial]

From what Lan said it looks like the new official 2da files conflict with CEP 1.52 (I thought CEP built in a load of slack but maybe not enough). My guess would be that the new stuff from the patch will work when the new version of CEP is released - which in itself will give you a load more content to play with.

I may go take a look and see when CEP 2.0 is coming out.

[Mekerek]

CEP and the Bioware have simular items/functions. CEP 1.52 did not know what they would be in 1.67 so there are some that bump heads at this time. CEP overrides the stock stuff.. so it wins. They should be fixing this in CEP2 which has not had a projected release date yet.

It doesn't seemingly affect existing stuff, will only affect the added 'Content' by bioware.

Mek.

[Longtide]

Like I said, I'm all over this one. I've also noticed after thinking on this, I can directly tie this into the Holostar / Liveda plot and kill two birds with one stone. So I will be merging the two ideas together, but combat will be primarily based on and for casters.

Here is where my thoughts are going for a design plan.

-Current Level Requirements are;
20-25 -This will allow these level's to "Get a taste"
26-35 -This will allow these levels to "Explore"
36+ -This will allow these levels to "Challenge themselves to completion"

-Estimated # of Maps are; Exterior: 9
Interior: 3-5
-Estimated # of NPC's are;
20-25 = 4-6
26-35 = 3-5
36+ = 3-5
Estimate : 10-16

-All opponents are to be "ethereal", that is they do not have a physical form.

-Because they do not have a physical form, they cannot be affected by melee.

-AC's will be in the high 90's (so they can't be physically hit)

-The opponents here can only be affected by;
-Magic +100% Increase
-Divine +50% Increase
-Electricity+50% Immune
-Positive Regular
-Negative Regular
-Sonic 50% Immune
-The NPC's should have hit points to reflect how many spells they can take that are damaged based with no regeneration abilities. 20-25 50 Hit Points 26-35 150 Hit Points 36+ 250 Hit Points Boss 350 Hit Points

-Some NPC Immunities are;
-Criticals (maybe moot point if they can't be hit)
-Mind Spells (to prevent inaction)
-Domination (to prevent control over something they shouldn't have control over)
-Control (like Domination, depending on creature type) -Death Magic (No fun in instakills?, besides most pc's have this too).
-Freedom (Cannot stop ethereal beings. in RP yes, combat no)
-Hold Person (As Freedom)
-Hold Monster (As Freedom)
-All Bigby's spells (As Freedom)

-Some NPC Attacks are;
-Slashing with no combat damage and an att bonus to hit.
-Instead, they will do either;
-Magic
-Positive
-Negative
-Magical Spell Attacks.
-Conjurations (Note, should be part of the encounter spawns. Creatures like "Apprentice Guardians."
-Note: These creatures should be completely immune to magic and magical attacks and requires the caster to have a fighter guard.
-Note: This should be limited to certain areas with loot or treasure to ensure the mage can solo parts of the 9.

Just some of the plan I'm trying to come up so I can start the actual building. I like to have a rough plan on "paper" so I can work my plan. I figure if I put my thoughts out on this one BEFORE I start working on it then I won't have to redo alot of the work for mino / greater changes. That is a pain in the butt. Even with my spanking fast new pc, each right click -->properties screen still takes 10+ seconds to open and editing a 100 properties in a session is not far fetched. That's 16 minutes of thumb twiddling waiting for a window to appear.

Any other comments or ideas? Remember I am limited to what I can do and that is far below my imagination.

-LT

[mercurial]

I'm not sure if I am reading this correctly but ...

-Magic +100% Increase
& 50 HP/ 150 HP

Is going to lead to spamming of maximised IGMS. 20 missiles each doing 12 points of magical damage, which is then multiplied to 24 because of the 100% magic vulnerability is 480 HP shared out. So it will take out 9 of your junior NPCs and 3 or you middle ones, just with one spell.

Does a natural 20 cause an automatic hit for melee in NWN? If so a hasted fighter with 5 attacks a round will hit on average once every 4 rounds. If the NPCs have low hit points (50) it could be dead reasonably quickly (especially if the PC is in Power Attack mode, which they would be in they need a natural 20 to hit) ... if it isn't an auto hit then ignore the above.

.. as I said not sure if I am reading it correctly, and I don't want to put you off ... sounds good though, especially if you can tie some storylines in.

Mat.

[Longtide]

Cool Stuff Mat. Yeah, that's the kinda input I was hoping to get.

And likewise, a typical caster could have 4-6 IGMS, so that's 36 low epic encounters gone with one rest, nevermind those that get dropped or those that drop to get their spells back.

Hmmm, more thinking on this then, maybe reverse the magical and divine damage. Clerics only get Hammer spells that do divine correct? (lol I've got one but can't recall what other cleric spells there are that do divine).

Yeah, keep this kind of information coming please!

-LT

[Longtide]

mercurial said:

Does a natural 20 cause an automatic hit for melee in NWN?

Can anyone confirm this too? This would be good knowledge to have.

If they do hit on a nat 20, then I cold add in massive damage resistance. But if I'm correct, upping the NPC's AC and Dammage resistance to abnormal epic levels will also raise the CR of the creature to a point that the game will think it's ludicrous that your level 40 char beat the NPC and as such will give you 1xp.

[justnkace]

Now for my 2g worth (no refunds please without proof of purchase)....
1st.... To Mat....Bix is ALMOST pure mage (1 level of cleric - only for the Bless .... Gotta get HOLY WATER for arrows somewhere!) Other than that...Yup...Wiz all the way. (Remember Bix Emporium is open 24/7 or longer - don't let all the new Pawn shops distract you) (oops)
2nd ... Mage Area ... Closest I've seen so far is Ocliax (The Cold Woods - and farther with the mages ... (and Undead - and lots of bandits) .... I know this area is unfinished, since Frome (who(m?) I never got to meet ..left. But there is a note in Anderhiem that spawns run from "Geesh...dead already? to ....RUN! It ain't dead!" (Low - 40 with no notice).
3rd... Er.... Well...there isn't a three. No. Only two. Yes..two.
4th...Sorry about three.
5th..ok..sorry..should have been a three...... Where is this undead place? Jerrin is wasting away because he can't sink his God (currently Helm, rather than Tyr due to some BAD Aelos type rolls during a quest) powers into.

- JustnKace.

[Moonstone]

Ok, just to finally reply, your right im wrong, i bow to your god like knowledge and pray you forgive this stupid girl, i just need to keep my mouth shut cause im a stupid twit

I got some rod that lets me cast greater ruin, I rarely use it, i try not to often, course, when i do, doesnt seem to do anything since most creatures got 500+ hps, and hellballs are on a staff, Id say they are strong, but since they cant even take out average level 20+ cr, id say they are just about worthless.

As for mage spells oh god of knowledge matt, i meant offensive spells, for some reason casting fox grace on myself doesnt seem to hurt enemies trying to slit my throat, if you can teach me how it damages my enemies id be thankful. you seem to speak alot but not listen

ive been all kinds of places, and when my 40th level mage can only buff up, then use ALL spells on the first 5 legion archers and have to turn back, it just kinda lame to me i guess

Sorry im being bitter, i just really really really dont want to sit here and learn to powergame, but it seems i have to learn i guess

[Silverwolf]

I am just going to put this gentley.

In Longtide's defense:

Mages have limited spells. NWNs made a big mistake by keeping the same number of spells a mage can cast in D&D.

They adjusted EXP, to make room for the fact that yes, you fight more monsters in a video game than in PnP. However, they seem to have forgotten the same applies to mages and their number of spells.

This isn't a problem in normal NWNs, as I can rest any time I catch a break from the bad guys. In talus, it possess a serious problem because I can't reknew my spells consistantly like that.

People have always ranted about how "Magic is more powerful than any sword!" ect. ect. Yet... my most successful characters have always been, both on and off Talus, fighter and rogue types. Clerics can do decently from time to time, but they have plenty of armor and weapon profecientcies, more HP than a rogue, and the same attack bonus as monks and rogues.

Sorceresses and Wizards don't. Yes, it was annoying when we had them running around casting wail of the banshee and utterly SMITING every thing around them, but that doesn't mean every epic monster needs to have a save so high it's impossible for it to work all together.

In Opal's defense:

Susan, my only mage in talus, is pretty piss pathetic. To the point that I loathe playing her. I spend hours just trying to groom her and level her past a 'nothing'. It becomes so frustrating taking a level 4 character to Alavar, something ANY of my other level 4 characters can do with ease, and having bandits kill her before she even makes it to the swamp. The sad thing is, Road to Alvar ISN'T a hard area at all. I've managed it at level 1 or 2... with a fighter type.

Now what I am getting at here isn't "OMG OMG OMG LT AND LAN AND FROME WERE NAZIS WHEN THEY MADE THIS AREA!!!!!1111one111". Hardly. The majority of the problems with mages CAN'T BE HELPED. By their very nature, they are frail and easily dispersed. But one thing is balance. One thing I liked about Akrona when I went... was there was something for all of us to do. It was with Ania, admittingly... I didn't have a good time on that fact alone. But it was also with Opal as Tifa. I was Kath. Tifa was a decent rogue with magic and fighting in there enough to make her versatile, Ania was all mage, Kath was a crazy berserker. I remember getting to one part, the cave right before you fight the shadow dragon. There are those 'night crawlers' or whatever you wanna call em. HIGH HIGH HIGH spell resistance. Ania wanted to avoid them all together, but for Opal and I it was ringing a dinner bell. Easily beaten by a fighter, hell on earth for a mage... this same concept can be reapplied with other monsters with ease. Damage reduction, HP, AC, all out the ass... but utterly nothing for spell resistance and relatively low saves (relatively).

Of coarse, later I found out (no shock) Ania had... help. All that time I thought "Gee. Wizards rock" at how she was utterly munilating all these monsters I was having hell with.

Granted, she was level 39, I was level 27... but on that same page, twelve levels under her and with outside help, she wasn't doing all that much better than me.

LT does things I would love to do, but lack the time... and I love him to peaces. Literally, I mean it. I love him. And I guess that Lan guy is alright too. XD But sometimes... ya go a bit over board on challenge. I would get bored if I knew I was gonna win every fight I got into, make no mistake. But just a penny for your thoughts.

I am sure this all mage area will rock. A shame I will likely never be involved. At this point I am about to give up on my little wizard.


FYI: I didn't really read every one's post. Skimmed most... so if I repeated anything I am dreadfully sorry. I am just tired and cranky and there's a reason I haven't been online all week. =P

[Silverwolf]

Well... um... I didn't know there was a second page, thus I missed Opal's post. >>;

Easy girl. You know we love you. ^^; I didn't read Matt's post, so I have no idea on it, but LT was just being defensive (most people are when you call them on something, especially when they realize you have a point).




And I am glad you are removing regen from these monsters. As a FIGHTER I hate massively regenerating monsters. A mage it's a million times worse, as said above, a mage has limited spells. Fighter has infinite sword swings. You don't down it with your first few spells, just kill yourself. It'll regenerate and they were wasted.

I still remember my fight with the errie bogs werecat... it regenerated... I regenerated... both of us had high ACs and decent damage resistance...

... it was DBZ. Pointless bland fighting for 45 minutes straight. At one point of the fight I illustrated how pointless it was. I stopped attacking the were cat and started walking around ignoring it (I guess I hoped it would go away... NOPE!). 45 minutes I fought that thing. FINALLY, I KILLED IT! ... for 13 EXP!

One of the few times I shouted pointlessly on the server. "HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA! I HAVE DEFEATED YOU SON GOKU AND COLLECTED MY THIRTEEN EXPERIENCE POINTS!". What can I say, my mind snapped. A few DMs hushed me. I responded "YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. THESE ARE THE BEST THIRTEEN EXPERIENCE POINTS I HAVE EVER COLLECTED IN MY LIFE! THE BEST EVER! EVER!" then Sleek took thirteen exp from me exactly... ;_;

[mercurial]

Moonstone,

Sorry if I caused any offence it was intentional at all. It was just trying to help out, with some other options for you. There is more than just loading up with offensive spells and blasting away when you are mage.

Just as an aside, casting fox's cunning on yourself increases your intelligence, which in turn increases the DC of your offensive spells - thus helping you to hurt your enemies. It's a 2nd level spell that should only need to be cast once as it lasts 1 hour a level. I agree it really is tough when you are a mage and you run out of spells, and have nothing in backup.

I'm all for a mage area, and I am sure it will be great. Good on you Moonstone for raising the issue. That reminds me ... can I have an area for Bards .

Silverwolf is totally correct too, cRPG's aren't really suited to mages - they are typically hack n' slash to appease the L33T Hax0r OMG OMG!!!11!! I pwned you gud! types.

Peace.