Role playing: What I'm looking for...

[Lanthar D'Alton]

I'm looking for a person to lead, a person to scout and report back, a person to heal, a person to start battles by throwing a fireball before the fighters rush in... tactics and use of each class in a wise manner that one would normally use in pencil and paper. Yesterday's quest was horrendous. Most of the players just ran ahead the whole time, and I picked them off accordingly... but the need to actually use intelligent group tactics is key. So called "Nike" players that run ahead and kill everything while everyone else is back checking doors is just silliness. I could have put a dragon behind every door, and the whole group would have been dead in 10 seconds because they were all over the place, some running to entirely different areas. That is what I want to see less of. These players that think they can take everything, so they run off and leave the others to die... that just bothers me. One character died about 7 times I think because the group ran off without her... several others suffered similar fates. That isn't roleplaying. It's hack and slash for some and death for others.

Try to stick together in a quest. Try to keep in mind that what you can easily kill may slaughter the folks behind you. If you are low level try staying back and using ranged tactics to battle instead of rushing in to fight a dragon in melee with the high level fighters. There is no shame in ranged attacks. Most of all, try not to leave anybody behind.

Things like people always running and never walking do bother me, but if you stick with the group then I can deal with it.

Anyway... Someone asked, so I figured I would post my response. If you want XP in a quest I run, take on a ROLE. They don't call it ROLE playing for nothing...

-Lanthar

[Sythris]

The other aspect of Roleplaying is simply staying in-character most of the time. If you are an overzealous paladin, act like one. If you are a scoundrel rogue, act like one.

Also, if you have an 8 charisma, which many NWN characters do, do not talk as if you are the most charming person in the world.

Finally, do not design your character purely to be the most powerful it can be. Choose an archetype from literature, and make a character similar to it.

[Chass]

Thats the roleplay i'm talking about.... having fun and acting accordingly to your char.. Syth and Lan.. best post points.. hehe..

[Braindead]

Just to add a bit on to Sythris, with the 8 Charisma, Sevekor fits into that boat. That's why I RP him as so blunt and boastful.

[Anj]

Greetings wingstriker,

Thank you for contacting me with your concerns. Since I think my reply might be useful to some others who have mailed me, I'm posting it here publicly. I am not an active DM (and started out simply as a dedicated player to this module), but I will attempt to reply to some of the issues you brought up. These are only my opinions.

Firstly, you are right, there are limitations to the NWN computer game, and virtual roleplay, for that matter. While it would be ideal to conduct quests on the module similar in manner to a table D&D session, it isn't an easy task for several reasons.

While we all try and make good of the time we are logged in, let's face it, we aren't a close-knit group of friends who are willing to work in concert with one another (as would occur in a preplanned p&p game at so-n-so's house). Currently, the DMs on Talus are trying to work with an unpredictable lot of players, and while it's frustrating, I understand now that we can't expect a bunch of strangers to function together smoothly as would a group of friends (who know eachother's personalities, strengths/shortcomings, etc.). After adventuring with some of you, on various occassions and in different incarnations, I know this for a fact.

Nevertheless, when we are thrown together into a group for one of the quests, it would be nice to keep everyone working together as a group, no? In my opinion, DMs shouldn't metagame either (or powergame, or whatever you people call it), but roleplay themselves and interact with players as characters, setting the tone for the adventure to come. Players should roleplay by sharing background info about themselves (so we know where you're coming from, and why you will act as you do - and you should stay consistently in-character), as well as class and skill info (so we know how you're going to use your skills to enhance/protect the group - a novel idea, I know), etc.

When a leader is elected (and we should really take time to find out who would make the best leader in the group), then I think, players should heed this person's guidance throughout the quest. I'm not saying we should act like little soldiers, and that we shouldn't be able to give valuable input on a strategy, but some organization would benefit everyone. Lanthar posted a useful message on this forum about the different tasks/roles that players could take on, such as: leader, scouter...scroll up and read his message on this thread.

What task we each decide to take on should be discussed and pretty much determined before we head out into our mission, and discussed throughout as the quest unfolds. That means stop and smell the roses while you're on the journey, and talk with your party about what's going on, and what everyone intends to do. Everyone's role is significant, and should be treated as such. Leaders should get everyone involved in one way or another.

You're right, none of us are mind-readers. Since my partner is sitting right behind me on his pc, I forget sometimes to type things out, b/c we can simply discuss the quest aloud. But, even if it takes time we all need to communicate our thoughts and actions, in order to continue on a quest successfully. Share, share, share...

Also, survival of the group should bear importance to everyone involved, otherwise why be in a team? Strategizing benefits survival, and I see little of that occurring in the quests in which I've played. Why rush? If you don't have time to dedicate to the quest then be fair and don't participate in that particular one. I know that events arise that our out of our control at times, and we need to log off or be afk sometimes to tend to these things, but trying to rush the quest is unfair to the other players.

----

While it is implausible than an online quest can run the way a traditional D&D game would, maybe we could plan things a little better. Some of you have accused that this module is run by a select group of friends. I just have to say that it should be that way. The DM-run quests cannot and will not work if we don't regard it the way a group of friends coming to play would. I hope you understand that.

DMs might post to the website or these forums a blurb about an upcoming quest, the time it will be run, and players can sign up letting others know what character/class they intend to play. Some planning is helpful, don't you think?

wingstriker - some of the things I mentioned shouldn't be much of a surprise to someone with over 22 years of tradtional D&D gaming under his belt. I think all of us could benefit from your experience. Tell us what we might do to make this as enjoyable as your p&p games.

---

How all of this came to be, I'm still uncertain. Back in the early days of Lanthar's Lair, we had attracted some fun roleplayers who seem to have packed up and left the island. I'm still waiting, torch in hand, for their return...and, to the newcomers, I hope that you will derive some enjoyment from your stay...

Let's have fun again, shall we?

[glow=red,2,300]Anj[/glow]

[Lithorlas Synithus]

I believe that If we actually become that group of friends, where we will know eachothers strenghts/shortcommings, we can play and have some amazing RP together. So I would Like to start off by saying the following:

Here is a short bio for me:
Age= 17
Sex= Male
just kidding My name Is Kyle Clay Robinson. I live in the state of Washington. I am 17 years old, and just finished my Junior year in High school. I attend the Tacoma School of the Arts, where I am currently majoring in Theatre and Vocal Music. I have been role playing since I was 12 when my brother got into it. Also the Acting has really helped me to assume roles, heh.

I play sports frequently but my favorite thing to do is just relax and play some games. I am "A Romantic" and truely belive that all women should be treated with respect and praise. My Favorite Sport is BaseBall and I usually play shortstop or Out field, im pretty fast. I am usually good for my word, although sometimes I can get burnt out.

The general concensis I get from people is that I am a Happy Go Lucky kind of guy and always fun to be around.

I am currently courting a girl who is the inspiration of most of my poetry currently. Oh yes, I also write poetry and Songs on the piano. I have alot of poetry that I love to share, so ask me about it .

Well, Thats a little info about me. Ask away, heh. Also, feel free to contribute, and let people know you, it will increase our bond . Bye for now.

-Kyle/Kanio/Dantido/Lith

[Selric]

Interesting changes your putting forth. I've suddenly taken up an interest in this place again. Anj, your post sort of touched me, in a very unusual way. It's good and bad but bad for good reasons and good for bad reasons. Here is what I felt like saying after I read it.....

I don't really see how conducting a NWN game like a Traditional RPG is all that hard. I've done it before and it works quite well when the players actually want things to go this way. Problem is, most people don't.

When people play NWN, they are usually looking for something less serious and less involving then a real RPG. They want to get into alot of fights, kill alot of things and die several times without concequence. They want to gain vast wealth and power and brag about how tough they are without any concequences.

Such is also true from a RolePlaying perspective. Chass and I had a disscussion about RP in NWN once and she said the way she see's it, if you want a serious RP game where Hextorites behave like a Hextorite should, go play PnP. She told me how people like to take computer games less seriously and often goof around and don't RP the proper way. Her half-fiend for example is not a half-fiend, He's a human at birth who through exparaments by mages, became a half-fiend. We all know that a half-fiend is a half-fiend and that one of the parrents must have been a real fiend for a half-fiend to be produced. You can also learn a persons name by looking above their head, Players tend to assume they know a persons name just because they can see it on their screen. This is metagaming but people do it anyway because they arn't looking for a serious RolePlaying experience, if this wasn't supposed to happen it wouldn't show you a persons name when you look at them. Another thing worth mentioning is character descriptions. These are descriptions not biography's and should only contain details you can figure out by looking at the person. Unless your psychic, you cannot learn a persons life history just by staring at them and these are considered to be hurtful to the RP experience of anybody who interacts with them. But as with everything els I disscussed with Chass that night, if you want the real deal RPG experience, don't play computer games.

I on the other hand find computer games to be an excelent source for RolePlay enjoyment. They allow many people who don't even know eachother to connect and interact with eachother in a worldwide RP enviroment. I try my best to achive the most complete RP experience I can. Should I ever return and some of you actually want a true RPG, I will be willing to DM for the exclusive minority group who desires this. I've made it work in "Vampire: The Masquerade - Redemption" and I've seen it work in the Tales of Talisis NWN server.

[wingstriker]

Well I would have to say that I am impressed by the response I have received by the DM community for Talus and from some of its major players. From all the complaining about this person or that I wasn’t expecting much of a thought out response, so first I would like to say thank you very much.

The game is always going to be what you make of it , so it can be like table D&D to some small degree (hard to type everything and get the same feelings from what you get when watching someone’s body language at the table) and it can be just a computer game. I agree with what chass says this is a computer game and the majority dont take it seriously when trying to role play during the game. Again that is ok for it is what you make of it.
I think from some experiences of mine that a DM run quest that announces one is being run who wants to join is ok for some of the time. The best one would be to try and set one up where no one knows about it but is talked to by an NPC asking for help finding people that are interested in that NPC's problem or such. I just think when the powers that be announce an event you will get all kinds of people showing up that most likely have different agendas and will not work well with others. I am not saying this always happens but mostly. Would a man really go upto an evil PC killer that kills everyone and ask for his help? not likely but that can happen with a good story behind it. Once you hook a player into being interested than use tell to chat with them to find out what it is they think they will get out of the quest and make sure they will fit even a little into your idea of what the quest should be like. I am not saying not to post it on the forums just maybe not in game. We must remember most of us are strangers in real life and for some it takes time to get to know someone to be comfortable with them and truly role play well. For some it comes naturally and they are the ones that bring the rest of us into the light. ;D

I see NWN as a computer game that tries to blend the true in person role playing with first person shooter type of games so I try and keep both in mind when playing. I try and blend in the role playing and the strategies to destroy the computer controlled monsters or NPCs. The computer doesn’t wait for you to role play with it and if you try , well it isn’t pretty!

warning my opinion to follow

I just see it as the DMs job to come up with a hook for each player on why they should be going on this quest and if they include a character that wouldn’t be caught dead with a paladin or such there should be some real good reason for both of them to be there to truly get along during it. (DM talk with that player in tell and work out a good reason than) Or if there is a power gamer in the party slow it down and most likely they will get board and the rest can role play asking that person to look for greener pastures . ( YEAH right like that would turn out nice)
I just see it is the DMs responsibility to try and be the referee but to keep it fun for all involved not just sit back and watch what happens.( iam not saying that is what happens just completing a thought) I have the most fun by seeing that most if not all of the participants had fun at least once during the adventure. There also needs to be something for everyone, traps , monsters, magic and such things, for if there is nothing for a theif to do he will wonder and get into trouble. haha which is what they like to do right?

Sorry I guess I am saying what Anj already has said but I just see something special coming out of this and hope it doesn’t get passed by. Just try and remember you will always get the power gamers and what have you unless you lock your doors (that would be a shame) so I hope the residents of Talus can come up with a solution to help control this with out the players always running to the DMs and crying on their shoulders. There should be something like "be careful for maybe the gods of talus will empower its residents to drive out or destroy the transgressor against its people." I don’t know if that is possible or not but kind of funny or maybe it will just cause more problems.

Anyways I don’t know what is possible or not possible by a DM for I have not had the opportunity to DM in NWN. We want the server to have players and role play but unless there is interaction or challenges for them they will get board and not be around when someone wants to do something such as an event. Again iam not saying there isn’t anything to do or talk about it just appears to be a fact of the game.

Thank you
Wingstriker

BTW my name is Darin and I also have been playing since I was 12 but I am 36 as of june 17th. I hope my age doesnt through some of you off.
I live in Wisconsin with my wife and two boys and enjoy playing many types of computer games and table games. I have been married for 14 years and love almost every minute of it. hehe(wife backhands me)

[Selric]

We all have our different styles, I have mine and if anyone wants to take part in one of my events, they must play by my rules.

I find that if you go 100% with the RP, it works better on a CRPG then it does in a tabletop game. Most of the time my Tabletop group hardly even sits in the livingroom, we all sort of wander about the main floor while the game goes on, only taking the time to roll dice and check the map once in awhile. Online, you have a full graphical representation of whats going on and it's so much easier to lose yourself then it is when playing Traditional. Of course, live RPG's are the best. I'll never forget the "Werewolf: Laws of the Wild" game I played in the River Valley.

I never announce a DM quest, I usually have certian 'flags' set and as soon as someone trips over the flag, the event begins. If two people don't get along, I find it perfectly acceptable for them to fight wih eachother and not even cooperate. idealy I would like players to always expect a DM might jump in, but there are some very casual players who might not approve so I am required to recieve concent from all my clients.

I see NWN as an attempt to bring the Traditional RPG into electronic format rather then making a typical RPG that uses D&D rules. Bioware even said thats what they were trying to do.

I see 'Hooks' as the players responcibility, it is their character after all. The player designs his characters past and behavior, the DM (me in this case) will see if the hooks can catch onto something. When I DM, the abilities of the characters may not all be tested and the characters may not have the abilities to even complete their objective. This is ok because then they must either find someone to help them or work towards improving their skills before they can continue.

This is just the way I do things, I don't think anybody els works like this besides me. I also really hate it when players call me a god. I'm not a god, I'm a combination of fate and force of nature. I get irritated when people call me a god or worship me, it feels like they are trying to "Get in my good graces"

[wingstriker]

lol doesnt sound like that would be easy getting into your good graces.
anyway thanks for your input.

[geo]

Hey Darin, I am one up on you. I'll be 37 this August... :-(

I agree with Anj - this environment is a bit different than traditional p&p D&D in that it is not unusual for NWN party members never to have met each other until a quest. Imagine doing a p&p session after randomly grabbing folks you have never seen before off of the street. Nevertheless, I also agree about the importance of having a good leader who is able to use the skills of different characters and (probably even more importantly) communicate their plan to the other players. Sometimes I have noticed that the group not so much splits up as gets lost and confused. The course of action may be clear to the leader of the group, but it is not effectively communicated. And yes, as much as it may annoy you, you might have to repeat yourself if it appears that your troops seem to be fumbling around too much - they may have missed that party chat in the midst of combat or while rummaging through their inventory, etc.

On the other hand, lets not take this "march like little soldiers in a tight group" thing to an extreme. Is it really likely that a chaotic character will obey your every order like some lawful paladin? Is it not reasonable to assume that a true neutral character will try and grab that treasure without any intention of sharing it with the rest of the group? For example, there is a whole world of difference between a chaotic good, Robin Hood style, thief and one that is chaotic evil. Plus, different folks have different styles - and I am not talking about being ooc here. I'll go back to the thief analogy here because my favorite character is a rogue. Even if your character is a chaotic good thief who is willing to aid the party as best as he/she can, this aid may not manifest itself as scouting ahead of the group. Personally, I prefer to lag behind and hide in the shadows following the group. That way when my bold companions manage to get themselves in a jam (i.e., they are mercilessly wiped out by doom knights or manage to seal themselves into a locked chamber - remember?) I can sneak up and rescue my foolish friends. And I do not just do this because I like to snicker at you when you are laying prone on the floor. Part of the strategy is purely out of necessity. Even as a level 14 rogue with +3 weapons, I get killed extremely easily. I totally suck at face-to-face combat and there have been many occasions when, standing in the middle of a group, I have been wiped out simply from the side effect of an offensive spell directed against someone near me. If that bull headed dwarf friend of mine with the 200 hit points runs across a trap besides me, he/she may barely even feel it while I may be roasted to a crisp in an instant.

So my point is this - we need to put a lot of emphasis into roleplay. I hate hack&slash. This is a roleplay server and if you want to brag to your friend about the pixel shading on your new video card, please do not use talk or party or shout. But at the same time, let us not be prejudiced about what a roleplaying character is supposed to be doing. If you are a behemoth barbarian with the brain of a pea (say, wisdom & intelligence scores around 8) you may very well end up running into that chamber of traps and be sealed inside for the rest of eternity.

BTW, in the spirit of introductions, I am also a happily married chap - lucky enough to have a very cool wife - I am married to Anj. Professionally, I was an AF Captain till about two years ago when I decided to leave the service and settle in Colorado. Besides D&D, my primary interest involves physics (which was my major but, aside from the degree, has been totally useless to me professionally).

Geo

[Braindead]

Unlike everybody else, my stance on RP'ing is simple. Your character has you, not the other way around--when I'm playing Sevekor, I'm alotting his aspects in a way that fit the character of Sevekor, not Dan's desires. Speaking of Dan, a brief rundown.

Nearing the completion of an AS in Social Sciences, I am 20 years old and still living with my parents (cheaper college tuition if I'm someone's dependant). I like very much to read and write both fantasy stories and poetry, and have had some of my work placed into anthologies...only to get no munnies for it. I love RPGs, and have been playing D&D since I was about 13...ish... Also being an actor, I love to really get into RP, so I'll warn everyone ahead of time: I'm a nice guy, but Sevekor's a sneaky, manipulative fink.

As for vital stats, mentally I'm all fried. I'm usually carrying so much stress with me that my schedule is insane, hence the reason why I don't DM, even though everyone seems to want me to. I do DM for my pnp group of about 10-12, but that may change soon, too. Since I'm nearing milestones in my life, I just feel I need to get away...I need to travel. Part of this is brought about by health problems.

Simply put, I'm a mess. I have an enlarged heart, which already drastically shortens my life right there. When you add on the fact that I have a condition called "pectis excavatum" (cave chest), and my ribs are literally curving inward, you can tell my expectancy isn't very long. Also not exactly outwardly attractive (6'2", but yet 150 lbs--plus a big nose), you can tell I gots me some problems. I therefore try not to hold grudges very long (since all are trivial in the end), and am generally taking life's events for what they are one moment at a time.

Thus is my RP style; thus is MY style.

[wingstriker]

Geo and BrainDead

[EpicRifter]

I could just go off on this whole thread, but I'm not.

The best roleplay that I have ever seen was when I was running a quest on a server that I use to DM on.
I gathered a group of about 10-12 players and started to make things happen to them, they soon found eachother having similer visions, and what not so they decided to travel around together and try and found out what was going on. Only 4 of them got anything out of the quest due to the level of roleplay I saw out of them, everyone would have gotten something if they had talked with other members of the party to see if they had an idea. The 4 ended up finding everything due to the fact that they used the skills that each character had. (a level 5 wiz, level 9 rogue, level 2 fighter, and something that blew my mind was the level 4 gnomeish barbarian that had a 14 cha AND 14 int....yes I said a level 4 gnomeish barb with CHA and INT)

The wizard for his lore of the land. (I don't remember him failing more then 2 lore checks)
The rogue for scouting, locks, and traps of all kinds I threw at them. (Was only fried once by a deadly trap that he didn't see)
The fighter for his great attack power. (Died the most but was still a good sport about the whole thing)
The barbarian belive it or not he convinced a dragon not to eat them! (I think your about as shocked as I am about this character, but he had the highest CHA out of the 10-12 people, and the ONLY one to have passed any persuasion check they needed to make along the way)

Your character can only do what you want him/her to do.

[Dazed]

Greets, an old post, I know, but I was talking to a dm who asked what lured me here, and after telling him what happened in detail, he asked if I'd post it.

Anyways, here's my dinky little story. I first started playing online about 2 years ago. Was at a pw that is very much like Talus is now till the HCR crowd invaded and bugged the owner till he started adding in the rest restricts, the food/water, and OMG scripting to toughen it up ( bad deal cause he is NO scripter and has made a major mess ).
In my frustration, I left and began searching around ( I'd been there several months by then ) and happened on Talus. Sounded great, tradeskills, few limits other than the resting, ect....

I entered during the early day, only two others online, no dms. Immediately get an invite by a dwarf fighter, thinking maybe a dm playing who's being nice, I accept. I meet up with the guy, he is completely ooc and buys me a few potions, then takes me to the challenges. He hacks and slash through several of the challenges, never talking, no roleplay, what little I can get is by questions and he only LOL's me when I'm IC. And never once stops being ooc if he responds. Left pretty quick. Came back after a frustrating few days finding nothing else, met up with the mage who'd been here the first time. She approaches me by tells, meeting me in Lomatin and is really nice, but again, no rp. All ooc, again, lol's at any attempt to be IC. I'm thinking, k, something isn't right, this place isn't for the roleplayers *shrugs* no biggie, but isn't what I wanted in a PW. So I leave again and end up at a rp pw. But there's no tradeskills, nothing but guildwars ( you know, pvp and little else *yawns* fun at first, but gets old after a couple months of nothing else) , so I don't stick there very long.

Was scouting out the NWN Gameworlds, adding possibles to my favorites list when I found Talus, the forum link. Hadn't realized I'd even put it there WAY back when I visited. So I'm about to delete that entry, but think, I'm bored, and never did check out the forum, what the heck. The very first post I read is this one.

Lanthar said:

I'm looking for a person to lead, a person to scout and report back, a person to heal, a person to start battles by throwing a fireball before the fighters rush in... tactics and use of each class in a wise manner that one would normally use in pencil and paper. Yesterday's quest was horrendous. Most of the players just ran ahead the whole time, and I picked them off accordingly... but the need to actually use intelligent group tactics is key. So called "Nike" players that run ahead and kill everything while everyone else is back checking doors is just silliness. I could have put a dragon behind every door, and the whole group would have been dead in 10 seconds because they were all over the place, some running to entirely different areas. That is what I want to see less of. These players that think they can take everything, so they run off and leave the others to die... that just bothers me. One character died about 7 times I think because the group ran off without her... several others suffered similar fates. That isn't roleplaying. It's hack and slash for some and death for others.

Try to stick together in a quest. Try to keep in mind that what you can easily kill may slaughter the folks behind you. If you are low level try staying back and using ranged tactics to battle instead of rushing in to fight a dragon in melee with the high level fighters. There is no shame in ranged attacks. Most of all, try not to leave anybody behind.

Things like people always running and never walking do bother me, but if you stick with the group then I can deal with it.

Anyway... Someone asked, so I figured I would post my response. If you want XP in a quest I run, take on a ROLE. They don't call it ROLE playing for nothing...

-Lanthar

K, that's just the first post, all the following ones also blew my mind....so many, and I agree with most of them.

Kinda blows my mind. This is the owner, this is what he expects? This is ROLEPLAY, teamwork, ect. Not what I found when I was there But, then again, maybe things have changed, as they always do in most PW's. So I wander back into the place, thinking, won't stay long, will just confirm my original findings despite that post.
I don't remember how many are online, didn't even look on entry, but seconds after logging in with a weak rogue who's basically going to sneak around for a look and nothing else, I get a tell from Periam, seems like a nice person, tells me they'll meet me. She ( the character) does meet up quickly, and I'm totally shocked because she's all IC ( cept in tells, as should be ) I get lots of info, a guide to Peridotia, and a tour of the shops there with some info to help me out on things as well as a very nice bit of gold to get me started, not so much gold to make one go Hmmmm but enough for tools to craft and a few items to armor up and ammo up for entry into the challenges. ;D Needless to say, I'm loving this rp, the nice ooc aid, the info so I'm not totally clueless She's got me hooked. My return the next day gets only better as I'm brought into a nice group of old players with new pc's all hitting the challenges. We have a blast and get some dm attention that keeps us on our toes.
This is what keeps them coming back. Anyways, just posting what brought me back, and what kept me here. I've found tons of rp, most people staying IC, but few are being anal about ooc, which is good, cause somethings are just too funny to keep to yourself. And OMG, no HCR, thankfully. I play for the fun, make it a pain to survive and I'm not going to stick around. ;D

Anywho, the point of ALL this was that maybe would be a great idea is this post was summarized ( meaning many of the post following the original had some excellent points to them and should be included ) and added in a spot that gives like a mission statement. Someplace on the Gameworlds page, or the homepage. It made me come back for a second look, and I'm glad I did.